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  • Anti-gunner: “It’s impossible to talk about guns.” Allow me to retort.

     Margaret updated 11 months, 1 week ago 2 Members · 8 Posts
  • Margaret

    June 14, 2021 at 7:41 am

    With all due respect, you only perceive “talk(ing) about guns” as impossible because your definition of such is completely at odds with ours. You don’t actually want to have a discussion. You want to say “let’s end handguns and assault guns” and everyone else to say “OK” with zero consideration of the feasibility, morality, or real-world implications of doing so. And it is your singular focus. You don’t ever want to talk about other things that could possibly prevent people getting killed, such as law enforcement and other entities taking action when these potential mass shooters get on their radar. One such shooting was possibly prevented just a couple of weeks ago in Kerr County, Texas.

    This is how it should work. But law enforcement and other entities have dropped the ball on innumerable occasions, including in the cases of the Pulse nightclub shooter and the Stoneman Douglas and Santa Fe school shooters. But y’all don’t EVER talk about that, EVER. It’s always BAN BAN BAN.

    As the Brits say, sod that for a game of soldiers.

  • the_blue_wizard

    June 14, 2021 at 7:41 am

    Let’s talk means, how about you just agree with me, and then the conversation can be over. THE FACT is, the Facts don’t back up Gun Control. Let’s take the most infamous boogie-man – *Weapons of War* – or as we like to call them, the most common rifle held by citizens.

    So, given the Media Hysteria around AR-Style Rifles, they must be killing Thousands per year? Right? NO, averaged over the last 5 years of available FBI Data, Rifles of all types kill 314.6 per year. (2019 = 363)

    Using information for an article in 2017 when Rifle Homicides were about 390, it was estimated, and it can never be more than an estimate, that about 150 of those were AR Style Rifles.

    According to QUORA and other information sites, there are between 20 million and 35 million AR-Style Rifles, more popular that Ford F150 Trucks. We will again use the number that gives us the most conservative estimate.

    Even though the number of Rifle Homicides has dropped, I will continue to use 150 for Tactical Rifles to keep the numbers as conservative as possible. (2019 – 363)

    **150 / 20 Million x 100 =** ***0.00075%***

    And NO that is not a Typo. The actual percentage of Tactical Rifles involved in homicide is LESS THAN EIGHT 10 thousandths of a percent.

    Using ATF numbers from 2009 (343 Rifle Homicides) and the ATF Estimate of the number of Rifles (110 Mil) we can calculate the Percent of Rifles involved in Homicide.

    **343 / 110 Million x 100 =** ***0.000312%***

    Again, a MICROSCOPIC number in the ten thousandths of a percent.

    An experiment was done with Community Intervention, were Homicide was reduced by over 50% with no change to Gun Control Laws.

    Not the linked video, but the Information in the linked video actually comes from an Anti-Gun Group.

    Gun Homicide is very localized, 54% of Counties had ZERO Homicides and 50% of all Homicides occur in 1% of the Counties. In fact Homicide can be traced back to specific Cities, and even to specific Neighborhoods.

    – US Murder very Concentrated –

    Further 15.4% of all Active Shooter situations are resolved with the help of an Armed Citizen on the scene, a fact that the FBI desperately tried to cover up.

    The foundation for Gun Control is built on a lie.

    Guns do NOT even make the CDC Top Ten list of Cause of Death. McDonalds (fast food) kills more people than Rifles.

    But, let’s talk about were the real danger is –

    – You are 300 TIMES MORE LIKELY to die an ALCOHOL related death than you are to be murdered by a Rifle. (CDC, NIH)
    – You are 22 TIMES MORE LIKELY to die simply because your DOCTOR has crappy handwriting. (TIME Mag, various)
    – You are 10 TIMES MORE LIKELY to DROWN than to be murdered by a Rifle. (CDC, various)
    – You are 5 TIMES MORE LIKELY to be murdered with a KNIFE than you are to be murdered by a Rifle. (FBI 2019)
    – You are 2.7 TIMES MORE LIKELY to be Beaten to Death than to be murdered by a Rifle (FBI 2019)
    – You are more likely to DIE USING YOUR CELL PHONE, than you are to be murdered by a Rifle. (NHTSA – distracted driving)
    – You are more likely to be STRUCK BY LIGHTNING than to be murdered by a Rifle. In California with the highest number of Rifle Deaths, the odd are still 1 in 1.1 Million compared to 1 in 700,000 to be Struck By Lightning. (National Geographic, FBI 2019)
    – Medical Malpractices takes the lives of 250,000 people per year. 685 people per Day (John Hopkins, various)
    – Rifles about 315 (FBI, 5yr avg)
    – Tactical/Sport Rifles about 150 (various estimates)

    The fact that there is no factual/statistical information backing it up clearly shows this is not about Gun Control, it is about the Fascist Elite trying to protect their power and wealth, and to subjugate the citizens.

  • questionable762

    June 14, 2021 at 7:41 am

    The broward county sheriffs department is what got me into owning guns. They are a massive department and have tons of resources (I mean there is almost a cop on every corner in parkland) yet they still completely failed to act when they were needed most. I’m fairly certain the Coral Springs police did most of the heavy lifting that day. You can’t and shouldn’t rely on other people to protect you. Where I live now it takes over ten minutes for cops to show up.

  • SpiritedVoice7777

    June 14, 2021 at 7:41 am

    They won’t talk unless you use their narrative. They can’t deal with real facts, just simple narratives.

  • UnknownSloan

    June 14, 2021 at 7:41 am

    I made a post on /r/guncontrol asking something close to this. It was swatted by the mods.

  • squareroot4percenter

    June 14, 2021 at 7:41 am

    They do talk about increased preemptive measures…in the form of red flag laws, mental health checks, increased surveillance, etc.

    I’m aware of what people mean, in that there are cases where it was completely obvious to everyone because the shooter would talk about his plans to anyone who would lend half an ear. Advocacy of early law enforcement action is a dangerous game to play however when not everyone’s definition of ‘obvious’ is the same. I firmly believe any programs even approaching the fine line of ‘pre-crime’ should err far more on the side of liberty than safety.

    In so far as constructive discussion is concerned, I used to lament that people could not find common ground. Then I realized that finding common ground was largely not possible because different people are working with different sets of principles. Factual data about DGUs, self defense efficiency, number of homicides, all of the such *are largely irrelevant to the debate.*

    It is, to a much greater extent, about an individual’s personal feelings about firearm ownership, the role of state, and their beliefs concerning self defense, i.e. justified violence (and also political bandwagoning, that’s pretty much a given for any topic).

    Which, frankly, is (save for the bandwagoning) perhaps the way it should be. The protection of inalienable rights should not by and large rest on arguments of utilitarianism. Just realize that the gun rights debate is a symptom of ideology, and not something that exists so much on its own.

  • iron40

    June 14, 2021 at 7:41 am

    What’s up with this picture tho??

  • cIi-_-ib

    June 14, 2021 at 7:41 am

    >such as law enforcement and other entities taking action when these potential mass shooters get on their radar.

    I think it’s _very_ important to be clear in this regard:

    When there is evidence of a crime, or of threats to commit one? _Yes._

    Red flag laws, and general baseless accusations like “someone thinks you might be dangerous”? _Hell, no._

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