MemberMay 16, 2021 at 8:02 am
Hello my fellow impulse buyers. Today we are going to talk about keeping your hand away from your credit card when you see that [Turkish tacticool shotgun](https://imgur.com/a/hVgGddJ) sitting on the wall at your local gun store. (Even though many of you know this already).
Let’s start with **CONTEXT.**
Turkey is a fairly major producer of guns in Europe and Turkish factories make a lot of shotguns due to the restrictions in foreign markets. In the past few years there has been a massive wave of random tactical Turkish shotguns flooding the US market. There is a noticeable uptick in the past year presumably from them ramping up production for rona market and to fill gaps in the tactical shotgun sector. Turkish shotguns coming in is nothing new, but they were generally sporting guns that were contracted by major gun companies such as Stoeger (whose parent company is Benelli) and CZ. Some of those shotguns gained a good reputation such as the Stoeger M3000 which was a decent copy of the Benelli Inertia system and allowed you to get good reliability without Benelli price and was supported by the maker/market. However, the random no-name tactical timmy bullpup semi-autos, AR style box fed semi-autos, and various pumps coming in are not such products. They are built cheap under no parent company supervision and are meant to be sold solely on novelty of their “cool” looks or price-point
**ORIGIN:** “But ENclip my bullpup semi-auto shotgun isn’t Turkish it’s a good old American shotgun made by G-Force Arms, Charles Daly, Citadel, Black Aces, Radikal, Panzer Arms, etc.”
No timmy, it isn’t an American shotgun. The Turkish tactical shotguns are being brought in by many companies who do not make the guns, they are simply importing them and slapping their big old label on them with their branding. All these shotguns get rebranded/renamed which makes it look like there are so many when in reality they are basically all the same with slightly “different” aesthetics or internals. Go on guns.com and take a look at their semi-auto shotguns listings and look for yourself at what I mean by the million different rebrands/model names/slight changes. It doesn’t help that websites generally WILL NOT mention where they were made. If you see an American address on one, that is simply the importers location which they have to put on it. The good news is these shotguns should say “made in Turkey” somewhere on them (even if discreetly).
CITADEL BR99, TYPHOON DEFENSE X12, TR IMPORTS SE122, TRISTAR KRX TACTICAL, CHARLES DALY AR12S, ROCK ISLAND ARMORY VR60, PANZER ARMS AR-12 TACTICAL. That’s quite a lot of tantalizing variety, isn’t it timmy? Wrong. Every single one of those is the same Turkish gun design with slight changes in aesthetic exterior. Go on, google it timmy.
**COST:** “But ENclip they are such a good price”
No timothy, they aren’t. Sure, generally speaking they are cheaper than their counterparts, but that’s the point. They are made cheap with cost-cutting quality control. Even then, $700 for that new Turkish bullpup isn’t exactly cheap and quite overpriced, especially when you get a shoddy gun that can have many problems. Instead, you can get a quality pump shotgun like a Mossberg 590/590A1, Benelli Nova or an old Remington 870 wingmaster, or if you want a tactical semi-auto around that price a Mossberg 930 SPX will be a much better choice and actually is supported. For Turkish tactical pumps that are $200 those too can be problematic in their own right and you’d be better off waiting to get something like a Maverick 88 in that price range.
**REVIEWS**: “But ENclip my XYZ-15 box fed autoloader has no bad reviews out there.”
No timanthony, it doesn’t. Because that’s the 27th renamed tacticool Turkish shotgun that has been imported this month. There are hardly any reviews for most of these guns because there are so many renames, remodels, and rebrands that it’s hard to have any actual data, and if there is any it’s someone who fired 50 rounds and gave it five stars. The fact of the matter is their quality control sucks and you are taking a chance. We generally have no idea what factories in Turkey are making them or what they are doing. And even if we do, it’s still made under the same principle of cheap.
**PARTS:** “But ENclip even if the firing pin breaks due to poor material/heat-treat I can buy a replacement”
No timbob, you can’t because there is near zero aftermarket support for any of these guns. You can’t find accessories that fit, and you most definitely can’t find replacement parts. Your only hope in event of breakage is that the company has a warranty service. And if they do, a lot of these tend to have very short warranties such as 1 or 2 years.
**PROBLEMS**: “But ENclip, what kind of problems does this lack of QC cause?”
Well tim, I’m glad you asked. The problems people are generally going to see are malfunctions. Bad fitting/out of spec parts, shoddy magazines, ill thought out actions, etc. can all contribute to problematic function. Sure, many people are buying them as a range toy where clearing a jam is just annoying, but there are also many out there turning to these guns as home defense due to shortages of common recommendations. THESE GUNS SHOULD NEVER BE CONSIDERED RELIABLE FOR DEFENSE. In terms of breakage, commonly small parts will break. Such as the fire control group or maybe your sight pops off. There are ton of posts around the internet like this:
Even worse still is that quality control and dubious manufacturing can cause problems that are much worse. A prime recent example of this is the QC on the clones of the Benelli M4 coming in. You’d think they can’t fuck it up because they are copying 1 to 1 the most reliable combat shotgun ever made. But no, even though it may appear to be copied right, here is an example of the bolt carrier and piston on one seriously deforming due to improper heat treat or improper steel in UNDER a 100 shells.
And here is a Black Aces Bullpup (fully pictured in the first image of the imgur link in the very beginning of my post) with a warped frame [https://imgur.com/a/NRRGHFe](https://imgur.com/a/NRRGHFe)
“But ENclip what about other-”
Stop it timlee, just stop. I already know you are going to go “what about other actually good shotguns, they have lemons too.” No, Benelli will never ever have a QC failing that bad on their M4. And yes, well known manufacturers will have some QC lemons from time to time with minor things like sight alignment or finish. However, these Turkish shotguns have a vastly higher rate of QC errors and serious problems, and to top it off they do not have legitimate support if there is a problem as mentioned earlier.
**CONCLUSION**: Bottomline, stay away from these Turkish “tactical” shotguns unless you like risk. I’m not saying Turkey can’t make a good gun, they make a fantastic MP5 clone (by MKE) and some decent sporting guns like the Stoeger M3000 for example, but these shotguns are simply not made well. If you still want to buy one because you want a range toy that you are willing to take the chance on because there are no other options for a spaceforce semi-auto bullpup shotgun out there, be my guest. This is mainly for people who want to impulse buy one due to “cool” factor or home defense, and then are clueless when something breaks or doesn’t work right or they can’t find accessories. Go on and fly forth timmy.
Edit: Added some examples in the “Origin” section and changed/added a couple of words/sentences and grammar. Also, clarification that a few brands actually are both the maker and importer according to their site such as “Panzer Arms,” but that doesn’t change the quality issue and the million versions/brands.
HighlifetallboyGuestMay 16, 2021 at 8:03 am
We need a gunnit bot command for this. Gunnitbot gobble gobble
pestilenceGuestMay 16, 2021 at 8:03 am
Quality posted, user flared, and FAQed. Thank you for your cervix.
Almostsuicide1234GuestMay 16, 2021 at 8:03 am
I took a friend and wife to the store to buy shotguns for their first gun. They were transfixed by these Turkey tacticool guns and their price tag and couldn’t be talked out of it. I am not against cheap, hell I have a beater AR, but cheap+ no available parts= a recipe for a tactical paperweight.
carsen56GuestMay 16, 2021 at 8:03 am
You can’t tell me what to do and you can’t stop me from dual wielding Panzer Arms AR-12s while my house is getting invaded by crack addicts
kraggersGuestMay 16, 2021 at 8:03 am
The only time I saw a panzer arms in action it was running slower than a single shot since each jam was more interesting than the last.
Edit for additional thoughts, if you do see positive reviews pay attention to how they are worded. It’s cheaper to build and sell a crappy gun and astroturf the gun world into buying it than it is to make a good gun from the bat. See Taurus and the many shill posts on gunnit from a few years ago.
fluffy_butternutGuestMay 16, 2021 at 8:03 am
The only thing I would add or modify to this EXCELLENT write-up is that you are way better off buying an old beat-ass Ithaca 37 or Winchester Model 12 or Remington 870 than any of these.
I’d take an ugly ass 37 over any of these brand new any day.
fxckfxckgamesGuestMay 16, 2021 at 8:03 am
Dude, I work in the industry, and these shotguns are so much worse than you think. I can’t tell you how often I hear from a customer that they received a shotgun that’s missing parts, missing irons, has a cracked frame, won’t accept a factory magazine, etc etc.
In addition, the manufacturers won’t send me replacement parts to give to customers unless I can give them a model, serial, invoice, signed letter, and blood sample from the customer and myself.
THEN if I can convince them that I deserve to have the missing parts, they tell me that they can’t get them from Turkey at the moment.
autosearGuestMay 16, 2021 at 8:03 am
But ENclip, I watched [youtuber]’s review of it and it didn’t jam at all!
But ENclip, this one has a warranty!
But ENclip, it’s just a copy of the one from [manufacturer] without the upcharge for the name!
whk1992GuestMay 16, 2021 at 8:03 am
And if OP’s reason isn’t enough, I’m sure someone will eventually come in and lecture everyone why we shouldn’t support Turkish goods.
ML_BURGERKINGGuestMay 16, 2021 at 8:03 am
This needs to be reposted in all of the gun subs. Especially /r/liberalgunowners
Man I hate seeing those “just got my first gun, ready to defend my home!” posts and it’s one of these trash fucking shotguns. Friend of mine got one and when we took it out we couldn’t get 2 consecutive shots out of it the whole trip, just a crazy variety of malfunctions.
BobbyWasabiMk2GuestMay 16, 2021 at 8:03 am
Everytime I see someone come here with a title of “I finally joined the community!” and they post a shitty turkish tacticool shotgun I die a little on the inside. Extra salt on the wounds when I know they bought the cheapest ammo, which is either birdshot or target loads.
ardesofmicheGuestMay 16, 2021 at 8:03 am
zombieapathyGuestMay 16, 2021 at 8:03 am
Can’t help but feel these are the Taurus revolvers of the shotgun world. Super easy for people to say, *”But I’ve never had a problem with MINE in all the time I’ve owned it!”* when they’re exactly the kinds of gun owners who will probably put 75 rounds through the gun over the course of four years.
Hard to break something if you don’t ever use it.
CrunchBite319GuestMay 16, 2021 at 8:03 am
Well done. It needed to be said. I understand the temptation to buy one of these things but the possibility of it turning into an expensive paperweight is too high.