MemberJune 15, 2021 at 11:08 am
I am copy and pasting this from a comment that I made on another post but it really boils my blood re-living all of what my friends went through over a bar fight that they didn’t start nor had nothing to do with weapons/guns. Sorry about the rant.
“Not knowing you’re a felon and losing your gun rights happens more often than you think.
I got two buddy’s out in Pennsylvania who got into a bar fight. Fists only, no one went to the hospital or anything, hell they didn’t even instigate the fight but they got hit with simple assault, terroristic threats(for telling the guys if they come around and start trouble again they will beat their ass again, don’t know how that’s TERRORISTIC threats?) and something else I forgot, which all 3 of their charges were misdemeanors and got probation, but they COULD have gotten a year in jail as the maximum for each charge totaled up, so they both lost their gun rights FEDERALLY but not at the state level, and can’t hunt with me anymore.
The kicker is the 3 guys who started the issues with my friends ADMITTED to the cops they started it and the surveillance tape proved it to but the judge and the cops didn’t care and took everyone to jail for the night and everybody got the same punishment even though the prosecuting ADA admitted it was a self defense, the judge thought otherwise(Something about Philadelphia being a commonwealth and their weird self defense laws?).
Even though they were all misdemeanors, they are technically considered felons at the federal level(not state) and had no idea, even the court said they could keep their gun rights(but didn’t specify it was only at the state level) and they both took the plea seeing probation and a fine as better than a trial and jail time, until one of them went to an FFL to buy a new rifle a year after probation ended and got denied by NICS. AND then he got a call from a fed agency asking why he tried to purchase a firearm being a “felon” and lying on the form saying he was NOT a felon, that next time it will be more serious and not to try again etc.
The system is fucked up. A felony should make a felon. Not a misdemeanor. Sometimes ignorance of the law IS a valid excuse if the law makes no sense. They convolute it on purpose to get you.
Yes they have hired lawyers but goodluck getting your gun rights back in PA without a governors pardon and it’s been 13 years.”
I don’t understand why two people with no previous history of crimes besides speeding tickets loses their gun rights over defending themselves non lethally, with no serious injuries and then their is no legal recourse or appeal system to rectify the situation. They have spent thousands on good, reputable lawyers and still the only hope is a pardon just to be able to hunt squirrels and have a firearm in their home.
Everyone talks about repealing the NFA but so people get caught up in the criminal justice legal machine and never get out over something simple and stupid. So many people say ” just walk away” but that’s not realistic, confrontation is a part of life and sometimes you can’t just walk away and have to defend yourself.
Is it fair a grandpa who got caught smoking pot in 1972 can’t take his grandson hunting or teach him proper firearm safety because he is a “felon”? Why is there no legal avenue to get your firearms back federally?
GOA_AMD65GuestJune 15, 2021 at 11:08 am
Martha Stewart can never own a gun or vote; all because she was an idiot that didn’t invoke her 5th Amendment rights and shut up.
Friendly reminder to **Never talk to the FBI.**
TheBlueKing4516GuestJune 15, 2021 at 11:08 am
This is actually a really interesting shift I’ve seen occur in the modern day gun community. I think more and more people in the Gun community are becoming 2nd amendment absolutists. It used to be far more common for people to think felons shouldn’t be allowed to own guns.
These days I think People ask the valid question if felons are So dangerous that they can’t be trusted with the right of self defense for fear of reoffending why are we letting them out of prison? They could always buy a gun illegally or harm someone without one, it is after all the person that chooses to harm someone not the gun.
I know I’ve certainly changed my own views. I think the whole felony status is stupid altogether. I could get on board with a small one to two year probationary status after a violent felon gets out of prison, but after that I want ALL of their rights restored.
never_remember_IDGuestJune 15, 2021 at 11:08 am
Gun rights and voting rights should be tied – change my mind. If the people decide you can’t be trusted with firearm, you shouldn’t be able to vote. 18 year old cam’t buy a rifle? They can’t vote. A state want 16 year olds to vote? Let them buy rifles.
DuodenumofDeathGuestJune 15, 2021 at 11:08 am
All felons free in society should gain all their rights back. Why? Because if you feel fine releasing them into society where they can steal a gun, black market purchase a gun, build a gun, straw purchase a gun… then they should also be able to buy a gun.
John_RuthGuestJune 15, 2021 at 11:08 am
I think Maj Toure made a good argument when saying (paraphrasing here) that if someone is not deserving of their right to bear arms after completing the punishment, maybe they shouldn’t be put in society in the first place, as those individuals would be dangerous regardless of whether or not they have legal access to guns.
In short, the system is pretty well screwed up.
longboard_noobGuestJune 15, 2021 at 11:08 am
This is why I hope that a case involving the felony or misdemeanor with greater than one year in jail provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968 gets brought to SCOTUS and they strike down the law. This aspect of “gun control” is really the greatest threat to the 2A because it’s all it takes for anti-gun states to turn law-abiding people into “prohibited persons” (see e.g., CT, NJ, DC >10rd mag ban laws that are a felony to violate). The more prohibited persons, the less people can partake in guns, the sooner gun culture in America dies out.
cloud_cleaverGuestJune 15, 2021 at 11:08 am
As far as I’m concerned “ignorance of the law is no excuse” lost any credibility it might’ve had when the laws we’re expected to obey are neither objectively nor intuitively moral, and so numerous that no human could possibly memorize them.
Bayou_wulfGuestJune 15, 2021 at 11:08 am
Eventually the felon/misdemeanor system is going to be abolished or redefined. Every year laws keep blurring the two closer and closer together.
MrEd57076GuestJune 15, 2021 at 11:08 am
A large part of that isnt just to take your rights. It is where the term “prison industrial complex” comes from. They have to make felons to justify the existence of such a big system. Thats how they all get paid. I know a few prison guards. They are told not to let anything pass that would get time tacked on to a sentence. Full beds are how the bills get paid. They dont make as much money if they rehabilitate and release. Taking your rights in the process just helps ensure your eventual return to the embrace of the system.
captnaufragioGuestJune 15, 2021 at 11:08 am
Loosely relevant, turns out that the state of florida gets to take and hold yer dna, free to use in any future investigation, if youve been charged with a felony. The felony can be dropped and dismissed like mine, but they may still use my dna for whatever legal purpose they want despite obtaining it through trumped up charges.
ProfessorHydeGuestJune 15, 2021 at 11:08 am
It’s going to continue to happen while the state has a monopoly on force. People need to stand up for their rights with equal or greater force.
PhreddyPhuckYouGuestJune 15, 2021 at 11:08 am
“Three felonies a day” is a book how the average person commits 3 felonies a day they didn’t know about cuz of the zillions of laws we have.
This is a feature, not a bug. The idea is to make criminals out of everyone, cuz free men can’t be controlled.
pelftruearrowGuestJune 15, 2021 at 11:08 am
I’ve been noticing more and more lately that New Jersey laws have been including punishments for a year’s worth of prison sentence minimum for a lot of things. Looks like they’re doing a roundabout way of gun control without actually enacting gun control.
UnitCellGuestJune 15, 2021 at 11:08 am
The US criminal justice system is a hot mess ripe with over-criminalization, confusing and redundant nanny-laws and ideology driven punishment for minding one’s own business.